When I converse with people within normal humanity, the issue of the conversation not flowing smoothly often crops up. What do I mean by not flowing smoothly? Sometimes, when I’m engaging and chatting with someone in a perfectly normal way, they overcomplicate or overthink things, and the conversation just can’t continue. If it can’t go on, what do I do? I just stop engaging with that person—I find someone who can engage with others, who knows how to communicate and chat, who has the thinking of normal humanity, and then chat and engage with them instead. In My contact with you, the most common situation I see is that people feel, “Your identity and status have too great an influence when You talk and communicate with people. You’re God incarnate, and we’re created beings. If we say something wrong, we are likely to assume equal status and offend God’s disposition. Plus, as God incarnate, Your work is to save humanity, and You represent God Himself, so Your responsibility or the work You undertake can only be expressing truth to address the issue of corrupt humanity’s salvation. You should only talk about work, or topics that stem from divinity. You can’t talk about normal human life—matters of food, clothing, shelter, and transportation, or talk about how such-and-such a person is. If You do talk about how they are, You are judging them or have ulterior motives.” Because people hold these notions, they classify God incarnate as a non-human being. So, when I’m engaging with people who lack normal thinking and normal humanity, and I talk a bit about everyday matters or daily necessities, some put up a mental barrier, thinking, “What’s the point of talking about this? It’s not spiritual! Also, do You have ulterior motives for bringing this up?” If I discuss an individual’s situation, some wonder, “Is this judging or scheming against people behind their back? Do You have something in store for them? Are You going to promote them or eliminate them? Are You going to keep using them or dismiss them?” If I talk about someone’s issues, some think, “Do You dislike or feel repelled by that person? Did they do something to hurt You? Did they say or do something to offend You?” Especially when discussing sensitive topics involving leaders and workers, some are even more afraid to engage, saying, “You’re talking about these for work, but we won’t discuss them with You. These are sensitive topics. Once we say something inaccurate, You will expose and prune us, and You will see the revelation of our corruptions and be left with a bad impression of us, which would be inappropriate.” There are also times when I bring up certain topics, like asking, “Who in your family believes in God?” This topic is a sensitive one in mainland China. In the mainland, however, this is not considered sensitive to ask certain individuals who you’ve dealt with for a relatively long time and are quite familiar with—overseas, even less so. But if I ask this, some people don’t even dare to answer. They ponder, “Are You trying to dig into my background by asking who in my family believes?” If I ask, “How many people are in your local church? Who’s the church leader?” they think, “Oh no, are You trying to find out about the church? I can’t talk about this with You. If I say something and the church leader finds out, there’ll be trouble.” See, they’re guarded even when talking about church matters, and they’re afraid to say anything. Many people do not dare to discuss topics relating to church leaders and church work, or to say what’s on their minds freely. One of the main reasons for this is fear of exposing the church’s situation and offending the leaders and workers, and at the same time, fear of unintentionally revealing their own thoughts and views and being pruned or exposed. This is something they don’t want to see happen. So, when I’m engaging with many people, even ordinary communication can’t flow smoothly. When I’m engaging with and handling things with nonbelievers whose minds and backgrounds are complicated, once I’ve finished handling things, I leave quickly—I can’t form deep relationships or get too close. But when I’m engaging with brothers and sisters, I find most people are like that too: I can’t get too close or build deep relationships. It’s not that I consider Myself superior and am unwilling to engage with most people; rather, when I try to approach them or make contact with them, they subconsciously shy away or avoid Me. Why do you avoid Me? If you say something wrong, I won’t condemn you or make a big deal out of it. If you’re a leader or worker, we can fellowship the truth and chat about any aspect you don’t understand. If you’re an ordinary brother or sister and you really do say something wrong or have some erroneous thoughts and views, then it depends on whether I’m willing to talk to you about it. If I see that your caliber is poor and that you lack comprehension ability, and you can’t see through anything, then I don’t want to chat with you, and even if we did chat, it wouldn’t yield any results. However, if your caliber is good, you have comprehension ability, and you can see through some things, then chatting with you can yield results, and it won’t be a waste of breath. No matter who I chat with casually or what problems I discover, in My heart I will firstly not condemn them, secondly, I will not curse them, and thirdly, I will not determine their outcomes. Acting that way would be baseless, and I do not do foolish things. In terms of normal humanity, sometimes when I run into someone familiar, I just want to talk a bit and chat. If you’re willing, I’ll talk with you. If not, I won’t force you. Some people are afraid to chat with Me. No matter what I say, they’re guarded against Me and do not express their views, fearing they’ll say something wrong and give Me something to hold against them. If I see you’re unwilling to speak what is in your heart, I’ll stop at the appropriate point. If you’re always guarded against Me, always afraid I’m scheming against you, then I won’t be inclined to talk with you. Tell Me, is this rationality of Mine normal? (Yes.) When I talk and communicate with someone, there’ll always be some kind of context. For example, if you’re responsible for animal husbandry on a farm, we’ll talk about animal husbandry. If you’re a church leader, we’ll discuss church matters, matters relating to the brothers and sisters, what the current states of the brothers and sisters are like, or how church life is. If you’re a gospel preacher, then we’ll talk about gospel work. This is engaging with people within the scope of normal humanity, and this is part of My work as well. Some matters don’t involve church work but are still the general affairs of God’s house. It’s normal to chat about these things when we meet. You’re handling matters and doing your duty in God’s house, so when we meet, I should greet you and chat with you, and see if you have any difficulties. Sometimes, during casual chats, I ask something like, “The temperature has dropped the past couple nights—has your place been chilly?” Some don’t want to hear this, thinking, “We’re adults; do we need You to worry about us?” Good intentions go unappreciated, right? Other times, when I go to the kitchen, I ask, “How are this year’s vegetables? Are there enough to eat? What vegetables or foods do you like?” These are very normal things, aren’t they? (Yes.) But people’s hearts are too complicated, and in some cases, there isn’t a smooth flow even when I engage and communicate with them in a normal manner. Why is this? This happens because people are always afraid of exposing their issues and their true situations. And what are others afraid of? They fear that: “If I reveal my true situation, You’ll expose me in Your sermons at gatherings, using me as a target.” Why can’t you be a target? When I fellowship on the truth concerning your problems, that resolves them. Isn’t this something extra that you have gained? Isn’t this your good fortune? This is a good thing. It proves I take you seriously and have some regard for you. Is this correct? If I took no notice of you and you weren’t in My heart, and if I discovered any problems with you but paid them no heed and did not give you guidance and fellowship, then could you understand the truth and solve your problems? Would you be happy with that? If you were satisfied with that, thinking, “None of the issues God exposes relate to me, so this proves that I have no problems”—if you experience God’s work in this way, you would not be someone who pursues the truth. Some people, after years of faith, have never been pruned at all, they have never served as a foil even once, yet they feel proud and fortunate, thinking they’re very good, that they have no problems, and that they’ll certainly be saved. Isn’t this very troublesome? Such a person definitely cannot gain salvation.

People with the thinking of normal humanity, when communicating and engaging with others within normal humanity, will follow the sense of conscience and reason of normal humanity. With this sense, they have a minimum standard and principles in how they treat others. When you talk and engage with people within the thinking of normal humanity, on the one hand, people can sense that you have an awareness of the conscience of humanity. On the other hand, you act with a sense of propriety so you are not disagreeable to others. And another important point is that when you communicate and interact with others, they will benefit from the words you communicate and gain some things that humanity needs. This is what we call engaging and communicating with people. What is meant by communicating? In plain terms, it’s having a casual chat. Most people don’t know how to have a casual chat; as soon as they speak, they are prone to arguments and verbal spats, or they show off and lecture others to have them obey. Those with a bit of eloquence want to preach to others and act as their teacher as soon as they open their mouth. These manifestations are all revelations of corrupt dispositions. People with corrupt dispositions cannot have casual chats with others normally. Even if they speak normally for a while, it can’t last. At some point, they’ll start arguing, getting red in the face and completely caught up in it. This is not normal casual chatting. A normal casual chat is definitely not debating right and wrong, or quarrelling and bickering, much less judging or condemning people. Let’s define a casual chat. It is the exchange and sharing of information—this is what we call a casual chat. Is this definition accurate? (Accurate.) In what way is it accurate? The exchange and sharing of information is built on the foundation of the conscience and rationality of normal humanity. Look—how do people with conscience and reason chat and communicate? They don’t argue, and they are able to respect one another, benefitting the other person. After hearing what the other has shared, they gain some new information. Then, they in turn tell the other person some information that they know, so that the other person also benefits and, within their humanity, gains experience, insight, and knowledge. Sharing information they know with the other person based on the principles of respecting that person and getting along harmoniously on an equal footing, and then receiving information shared with them by the other person—isn’t this mutual help? This is built on the foundation of equality, mutual assistance, harmony, and fairness. This is what is meant by communication and casual chatting. Tell Me, is My definition accurate? (Accurate.) Practicing chatting and communication based on this principle is correct. If communications and chats are full of scheming, arguments, struggles, plots, tricks, traps, and tests, and if what is revealed is all corrupt dispositions, if it is all mutual suppression, with each person showing off, competing with one another, vying to see who speaks more loftily or says more, then this is not normal communication. It’s not communication within the scope of the conscience and rationality of normal humanity. This communication is not an exchange and sharing of information, but rather overt and covert struggles and verbal spats. Isn’t that so? (Yes.)

To achieve communication with others without scheming, you must learn to communicate within the scope of the conscience and rationality of normal humanity. The purpose of communication is to help others and also to receive help and benefits from them. This is normal communication, and in this way you can achieve communication without scheming. Look at the communication and chatting of nonbelievers; can it achieve the effect of normal communication? (No.) When corrupt people communicate and chat, are the content, motives, and tone of their communication normal? (No.) Their communication is simply like cocks fighting or dogs fighting. Can their communication proceed smoothly? (No.) They can’t even manage not to scheme against others or argue with them. Communication requires a heart of love, a desire to help each other, and a willingness to learn from one another’s strengths to offset weaknesses to flow smoothly. When I communicate and chat with you, it’s not enough for Me alone not to scheme; you also have to practice according to this principle, not scheming and not being suspicious. If I don’t scheme but you’re constantly scheming, and not only scheming yourselves but also suspecting that I’m scheming, then our communication can’t flow smoothly, nor can we achieve true, beneficial interaction or get along in harmony. Some people, when they see Me coming, quickly find a place to hide. If they really can’t avoid Me, they reluctantly greet Me, but in their hearts, they don’t want to meet Me, thinking, “What a pain. You’re here to find out about our actual situation again. After doing so, You’ll fellowship truth principles again and embarrass us. What should we do?” If you’re unwilling to meet or engage with Me, and you feel exhausted inside while you are engaging with Me, and you always feel I’m trying to scheme against you, then you can avoid Me when you see Me approaching. If you feel that when you engage with Me, I don’t scheme and what it brings you is ease, joy, freedom, and relaxation, then let’s meet, chat, and catch up on how things have been recently. If you ask Me, “How have You been lately?” I will answer honestly. If I ask you, “How have things been recently? Have you made any life progress? Have you made any gains from doing your duty?” and you can also answer honestly, that’s very good. Every meeting can proceed in an agreeable atmosphere. If it’s not right for people to always hide from Me when they see Me, is it right to always engage in insincere flattery to intentionally curry favor with Me? (No.) Why is it not right? (Liking to curry favor amounts to falseness and deceit. It’s better for us to speak more authentically, and we just need to treat God with a normal mentality. For one thing, we should be candid with Him. For another, we shouldn’t curry favor, deliberately try to ingratiate ourselves with God, or deliberately try to cozy up to Him.) With Me, there is only one requirement: When I see you, don’t hide from Me, and when I’m not looking for you, don’t pester Me. Do what you should be doing, and make everything normal. I won’t affect your performance of your duty, and you shouldn’t affect Me. Both hiding from Me and pestering Me are not principles people should follow when being in contact with Me and engaging with Me. So what is the principle? It is to communicate within the scope of the conscience and reason of normal humanity, and to be able to converse candidly and speak the plain truth; whatever I ask, you should answer truthfully. Why can people not manage to speak the plain truth? For example, suppose that I ask you, “How many people did you gain in preaching the gospel this month?” and you don’t want to answer. If I see that you are uncomfortable, I won’t press further. I don’t want to put people in a difficult situation, and I never force anyone to speak. Some people, no matter what others ask them, always ponder, “What do they mean by asking this?” They don’t want to answer directly, very afraid of answering incorrectly and causing themselves problems. If you’re always speculating and scheming like this, then we can’t communicate. You don’t need to always scrutinize the meaning of My questions, nor should you scheme against Me. If you can be simple and open yourself up to talk about what’s in your heart, then we can communicate with each other. Is this easy or not? (Easy.) It’s easy to say, but it might be a bit difficult to actually do. It’s not as easy as it sounds. For example, it could be that I once asked you a question, and you didn’t tell the truth at the time—you lied. That contact and communication failed. Having failed, what should you do? Strive to be brave enough to admit it next time we meet: “I lied last time. From now on, I’ll speak the plain truth.” Then I will encourage you—I’ll applaud you and give you a thumbs-up: You have succeeded in practicing the truth and being an honest person. Isn’t that great? (Yes.)

When it comes to fellowshipping on the topic of not scheming, no matter how many examples are given, what’s being told to you is one principle. Do you know what that principle is? (Don’t use the perspective of corrupt humankind to measure God or be suspicious of God.) That’s right. Don’t treat God with the perspective of corrupt humankind. So, what principle should be followed? (Treat God as God.) Is it not okay to treat Him as a human? Is it not okay to treat Him as a normal, ordinary person? Regardless of whether you treat Him as God or as a human, the most important principle for interpersonal engagement is to be candid with each other. When I speak and handle matters with you, I don’t scheme against you, and you should also be candid with Me. So, if someone schemes against you, should you also scheme against them? (No.) If someone schemes against you, you should also treat them according to principles. That’s the right way. It’s not just that I don’t scheme against you, so you are candid with Me, without scheming or suspicion. Rather, even if others scheme against you, you can still act and handle matters according to the truth principles. This is abiding by principles. Some people say, “They schemed against me—how can I not retaliate? If I don’t show them what’s what and just let them bully me like this, then won’t I lose out? Am I that easy to push around?” Tell Me, does their reasoning make sense? An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth—this makes sense among the people of the world. But if gauged by the truth, this statement is wrong. Their scheming against you is an evil deed. If you retaliate in turn, using the same method to scheme against them, in God’s eyes, the essence is the same; both are evil deeds. God won’t say that because they schemed against you, you fighting back is completely justified and in accordance with principles, and not an evil deed. God doesn’t look at why you schemed against them; He looks at whether your act itself is a scheme, whether it’s an evil deed, and at whether you treat this matter by gauging it by the truth or by human moral views. If the matter is gauged by human moral views, then “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth” would be deemed appropriate. They schemed against you first, so it’s reasonable for you to retaliate and scheme against them by using the same means, and they should accept such consequences. If measured from a human perspective, using human moral views, it’s not wrong. And if gauged by the law, perhaps it’s not illegal. But in God’s eyes, this runs contrary to the truth. Anything that runs contrary to the truth is an evil deed and is condemned in God’s eyes. Even if you fighting back is legitimate, God will not refrain from condemning you just because you fighting back is reasonable and morally justified. God will look at the way you treat them after they scheme against you. If you treat them in the same way, God will condemn you. But if you treat them according to the truth principles and treat them fairly and justly in the manner God taught you, then even though morally people may have notions and condemn you, and legally you may be convicted, in God’s eyes, God says that in this matter you acted in accordance with principle and that it’s not an evil deed—He will not condemn you. If you can treat people according to the truth principles, this is practicing the truth. You shouldn’t treat Christ according to your notions and imaginings or based on your corrupt dispositions, or use plots and tricks against Him. It should be like this in how you treat people as well. If you can treat Christ, this ordinary person, correctly, then in the same way you can also treat others correctly. No matter who a person is, you should adopt the right attitude in how you treat them. This way, your principles and methods for treating people will be correct. If you make an error in your attitude toward people or your thoughts and viewpoints regarding how to treat them, you will promptly reflect on yourself according to God’s words and correct your thoughts and viewpoints, while at the same time constantly regulating your behavior, and gradually, your thoughts and viewpoints regarding how to treat people and your principles for conducting yourself and acting will increasingly conform to the truth. When the truth principles become your life, your corrupt disposition will have been cast off and transformed, and you will be able to treat people fairly and justly, and in a manner which accords with God’s intentions. If they don’t scheme against you, you think it’s right for you to not scheme against them. But if they scheme against you, and you can refrain from scheming against them, instead seeking the truth and treating them according to the truth principles, isn’t that progress? Isn’t that transformation? (Yes.) If they scheme against you and you also scheme against them, aren’t you walking the same path as the one who schemes against you? In that case, what’s the difference between you and the people of the world? There has been no change in your views on people and things, or the viewpoints behind how you conduct yourself and act. These are not based on God’s words or the truth principles, but on the principles of the people of the world: Whoever schemes against you, you scheme against them—an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. You are no different from people of the world, from nonbelievers. If, regardless of whether someone schemes against you or not, you never scheme against them but rather treat them according to God’s words and according to the truth principles, then this stance and perspective are correct; this is practicing the truth. In the Age of Grace, what did the Lord Jesus tell people? If someone strikes you on your right cheek, what should you do? (The Lord Jesus said, “Whoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also” (Matthew 5:39).) Some people say, “If they hit me, I’ll hit them back! If they hit my left cheek, I’ll hit their left cheek. If they hit my right cheek, I’ll hit their right cheek. This isn’t condemned either morally or legally.” God says, “Wrong. If they hit your left cheek, turn your right cheek to them also. Don’t hit back.” Can you do that? Regardless of whether God’s requirement is acceptable in human eyes—perhaps to some people, this is a foolish saying, a silly practice—this is God’s requirement of you. Can you do it? You say, “I can’t do it. If they hit my left cheek, I must hit them back, or my pride and dignity will be gone, and I will have utterly lost face.” No matter whether this statement of yours stands up among corrupt humankind, if in God’s eyes your statement is wrong, your viewpoint is wrong, and your behavior is wrong, then your behavior is condemned in God’s eyes. What’s the reason it is condemned? It’s because you didn’t listen to God’s words, you didn’t follow God’s way. God told you that if someone strikes your left cheek, you should turn your right cheek to them also. Did you do that? God just asks you: Did you listen to God’s words? Did you practice according to what God instructed you? If you didn’t practice like this, then you didn’t follow God’s way and you are a person who rebels against God; you are not a person who practices the truth, and not a person who views things and conducts themselves according to God’s words. In that case, God doesn’t like you, you are not a person who God accepts, and in God’s eyes, that slap you returned is an evil deed. Perhaps you will always think it’s completely justified, that it’s a necessary means to protect your dignity and rights. But in God’s eyes, that slap means that you have not followed God’s way, nor do you want to, that you do not listen to God’s words, and that in your eyes, God’s words are just doctrine, empty words. You only preach God’s words but never practice them. God will characterize you as a person who doesn’t follow God’s way. So can you then still gain God’s acceptance? If you don’t follow God’s way, God’s words can never become your life. However much you argue your own reasoning, with God, He won’t listen. God won’t say, “Someone hit your left cheek without reason, and you are quite pitiable. To protect your dignity, you can hit back. After hitting back, you can pray and confess your sin, and God will forgive you and not condemn you.” God didn’t say that. God said if someone strikes your left cheek, you turn your right cheek to them also. If you can do that, you are a person who follows God’s way. If you can’t, in God’s eyes, you are a person who rebels against God, a person who doesn’t practice God’s words or follow God’s way, an evil person. What is God’s attitude toward evil people? God says, “Depart from Me! I do not know you.” God doesn’t want such people. Understand? (Understood.) The same applies to scheming. You say, “They schemed against me, so what’s wrong with me scheming against them?” You scheming against people is simply wrong. In what way is it wrong? It’s wrong because scheming itself is an evil deed, not a good one. So, when they scheme against people, God condemns them. If you do the same, God will condemn you in the same way. You should act in a way that is free of scheming, in a way that God accepts. Your duty is to practice according to the path and principles for practice that God has told you, not to argue your own reasoning or to protect your personal dignity or face. Your personal face, status, and dignity are not important. What is important? What’s important is whether God’s words are implemented in you, whether God’s words have become your life, whether you have lived out God’s words, and whether God’s words have been fulfilled in you. Understand? (Understood.) Some people say, “They swore at me, so I’ll swear at them back.” Is it right to say this? (No.) Others say, “They’re always petty toward me, so why can’t I be petty toward them? If I don’t, won’t I look silly?” Is it important how others see you? (No.) People always fuss over face, always afraid others will see them as silly and stupid. Actually, how others see you doesn’t matter. What matters? When they see you as silly, as stupid, when they mock you, how do you react? Do you react with impetuousness, with human methods and means, or according to the principles God has told you? Have you practiced according to God’s words? Have you held fast to your duty? Just because they laugh at you and call you silly, you throw a tantrum and give up your work, “You see me as silly, so I won’t do it anymore!” You’re not doing it for them. If you gave up your duty, what would God say? “Because someone called you silly, you gave up the duty I entrusted to you. You have no loyalty!” God will see it this way. If you truly have God in your heart, if you truly have loyalty to God, then if someone laughs at you and calls you silly, you should first ponder: “You say I’m silly, you say I’m stupid, and you laugh at me behind my back. I won’t argue with you and I won’t hold it against you. I am foolish and my caliber is poor, but God has exalted me and doesn’t disdain me. This duty wasn’t given to me by you, it was given to me by God: It’s God’s commission for me. It doesn’t matter if you think highly of me or not. I’m not doing my duty for you to see. Doing my duty is my calling. I must do my duty well, and must be loyal to God. I must cherish this duty, and live up to God’s exaltation and trust in me. I must be devoted to my duty. I can’t abandon my duty and let God down because you called me silly. That would make me truly silly.” Isn’t thinking this way in accordance with principles? Isn’t this letting go of impetuousness? This is not reacting with impetuousness. When you can act this way, you will truly have changed, and have stature. You will not be constrained by people, events, or things. No matter the circumstances, you will keep God’s words and the truth principles firmly in mind, and not treat any matter with impetuousness, emotions, or moods, or personal preferences, desires, or ambitions. God’s words will be the highest and greatest things in your heart, and when anything happens, you will first seek God’s words, “God’s words say this, so I’ll hold fast to them. It doesn’t matter if others see me as silly. What matters is how God sees me. Although I’m foolish and my caliber is poor, God has still entrusted me with a duty to do. What a great exaltation from God I’ve enjoyed! This is a blessing!” If you can treat the things you encounter according to God’s words, you will know how to practice in accordance with the truth principles.